Football Violence Debate

This is the result of last Thursday's match between Aberdeen and Atletico Madrid. What is your opinion on what happened and on football hooliganism in general?


Have you ever been to an important football match? What was the atmosphere like?




After reading the comments related to an article about the disturbances in Madrid following the Aberdeen - Atleti match, I decided to add some of my own in defence of the Spanish authorities. Many of the contributors had valid points but they only put the blame on the Spanish riot police and the Atleti fans. They didn't criticise any of the Aberdeen fans. Below is a heated discussion between a fellow Scot who lives in Madrid and myself. My nick is ScotInMadrid.

44. Joe Black, Madrid / 1:43pm 1 Dec 2007
Read the Spanish press, and they say the young lassie is the liar.
And that it was the drunken hooligan Scots that started the fighting; spilling drunkenly out of the bars.
Firing flares and throwing bottles and chairs at the Spanish and the Police.
What a Jackanory (slang What a tall story)!

Joe Black, Madrid / 6:16pm 1 Dec 2007
The problem that exists in Spain which is related to this poor girl, is the lack of safety and security by the Police here.
You never really see policeman walking the streets and I think community police don´t even exist. You see plenty of them driving around.
Everytime there´s football trouble the maximum number of arrests can be counted on one hand. More people end up in hospital due to the police tactics than are arrested.
There´s never any segregation neither outside nor inside the ground.
I suppose its because they are so poorly paid. And the beatings with their sticks is a custom they´ve carried on from the dictator Franco times.

75. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 9:40pm 1 Dec 2007
As a Scot living in Madrid, I feel ashamed at the behaviour of some Aberdeen fans. I knew there would be trouble judging by the state of those that I saw wandering drunkenly around the centre early on Thursday afternoon. Like in Scottish cities, it isn't allowed to drink on the streets in Madrid. You have to respect the country that you visit and not expect them to play by your rules. If you choose to wear the kilt, remember that you are clearly representing Scotland.
After this latest episode, I can't defend the fans of Scots clubs as opposed to English ones. We are most definitely all grouped as hooligans now.
I don't doubt that some police were heavy-handed and some Atletico fans were out for trouble.
It can't be any coincidence however that wherever British clubs play in Europe, there is violence. Then blame is layed at local fans, police and anybody but the visiting fans themselves.

76. Joe Black, Madrid / 10:06pm 1 Dec 2007
#75 Scot In Madrid
Its a shame you cannot be impartial by you statements.
1.The Spanish invented drinking in the streets; illegally its called Botellon and prevalent through out all of Spain especially with students. Legally allowed in the many terrazas esp in summer time.
2.Atletico de Madrid are notorious for their hooliganism in Spain "frente Atletico". Go to any Madrid Derby.
3.And finally you obviously don´t watch Spanish TV to see how the "antidisturbios" (riot police) treat the general public.
Get yer heid out o´ the sand.

78. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 10:59pm 1 Dec 2007
I have lived in Madrid for over six years. I don't need you to explain how life is like here. Like any major city, Madrid has some problems with drunkness; but nothing on the scale of any city or even small town in Scotland at the weekend.
They like their "copas" but don't go picking a fight after they have had a few.
I witnessed the Aberdeen fans that were here for the match. They weren't football hooligans but they showed no respect for the city they were visiting. They were already "blazing" (slang, drunk) by mid-afternoon and falling around the centre; being loud and foul-mouthed.
I have been to matches in the Bernabeu and Calderon. They have their problems and there are incidents from time to time caused by their hooligans.
But there are no problems when either Real Madrid or Atletico fans go abroad. Why is it that the majority of trouble is caused by visiting British clubs?
And you are also wrong in your assumption that I don't follow events in the Spanish media. I repeat that there are police who are heavy-handed but on the whole they only hit out when provoked.
It would be sensible for any innocent by-stander at the first hint of trouble to distance themselves from the area immediately. But as most visiting fans were "stotting"(slang, very drunk) well before the match, they were incapable of doing that.
I am surprised that you live in Spain. It sounds to me as if you still need to adapt to the Spanish way of life. If you can't do that, you should return home!

79. Joe Black, Madrid / 11:10pm 1 Dec 2007
I´ve been in Spain for over twenty years, but at least I´m objective and can see both sides.
True Spanish supporters generally do not travel not even in Spain, and abroad its generally too expensive.

80. Joe Black, Madrid / 11:14pm 1 Dec 2007
I´ve seen Spaniards having botellons out of the back of their cars annoying the whole barrio and then jumping in their car totally drunk and driving away.
And when the president of our community called the police, they did nothing.
As say get real.

81. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 11:26pm 1 Dec 2007
Reading through your previous comments I can't find any objectivity; just a sense of anti-Spanish. Surprising coming from someone who has lived here for so long. It must have been 20 years of suffering if you hold such opinions.
I saw the visiting fans and believe me, they were a disgrace to our country. Spaniards generally hold Scotland in high regard but behaviour such as I witnessed will possibly change that.

82. Joe Black, Madrid / 11:28pm 1 Dec 2007
# 78As you´ve only lived in Madrid for short time, you don´t how badly it has changed over the time I´ve lived here.
Shootings with columbians, latin gang fights, prostitutes annoying normal people in day light hours.
The Madrid of over ten years ago was a much safer place. Now its turning into a very violent city, with places that even the police are afraid to go to.
Though not everything is bad, its just like any modern cosmopolitan city; with the good and bad, as in Glasgow or Edinburgh.
I like Spain and Madrid; THIS is my home.
Try to open your eyes.

83. Joe Black, Madrid / 11:37pm 1 Dec 2007
Reading your comments you seem to be anti Scottish, its not surprising you left your homeland as you seem to be embarrassed to be a Scot ( in madrid)
You seem to think everybody in Scotland are drunks and foul mouthed drunks.
Your a sad case.

84. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 11:54pm 1 Dec 2007
I agree with you about some of the problems that Madrid has but compared to other cites (even smaller ones such as Glasgow) it is a relatively safe city. Living here for so long you will know how many neighbourhoods in the city centre have changed for the better.
In the "short time" (6.5years) that I have lived in Madrid, I have accepted and love the way of life here. The madrileños are very welcoming and on the whole friendly. It isn't perfect here but I am not going to become one of those moaning "guiris" (foreigners).
Returning to the trouble that occurred, I know there were police who lashed out and "atleti" that were fighting. However my eyes WERE open on Thursday afternoon when I saw drunken Aberdeen louts disturbing families in a busy shopping area. I predicted there would be trouble ahead.
My head most certainly isn't in the sand and my eyes are open to what is going on around me. Are yours?

85. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 12:05am 2 Dec 2007
I am VERY proud to be a Scot. I have a kilt and get drunk but I don't go around bothering others. I love talking about my country to all I meet. It makes me sad, when the likes I witnessed here in Madrid (admittedly a minority), create bad publicity for the country.
I love Scotland and I love Spain and the Spaniards.
If you are looking for a sad case, it seems you just need to look in the mirror.

86. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 12:08am 2 Dec 2007
PS It's YOU ARE / YOU'RE (not YOUR) a sad case.
Seems that you need to brush up on your English too!

Joe Black responded by calling me SnobInMadrid. I reported the comment as unsuitable and it was removed!

Source: The Scotsman

What is your opinion on football fans? Do you agree with the comments about the Spanish police? What do you think the solution is to football related violence?

Letter of Complaint - Holiday Gym

Have you ever had to complain to a business about something? What was it about and did you reach a satsfactory conclusion?

Apart from my ongoing battle with British Airways, I have had to make a fresh complaint; this time to the Holiday Gym.

It is reasonably priced compared to most other gyms. I find it convenient because it is a chain, there are eight or so gyms and members can go to any one of them. My classes are also spread across the city and this means I can work out at the nearest gym straight after the lesson. It is open from early in the morning until late in the evening and it is also open on holidays.

As with most gyms, it has its peak times when it is crowded and you have to wait to use a machine.

I have been going for four years.

The trouble is that you now have to pay for the whole year all at once. When I first started I actually paid for two years in advance. I paid something like 890 Euros, in three installments, over the first three months. Two years later I paid about 400 Euros. I actually made that payment a few months in advance.

Now the annual payment has dropped to 390 Euros. The amount is automatically deducted from your bank account. This is done 45 days before your membership is due to expire. So if you don't intend to carry on going to the gym, you have to inform them well in advance. Unlike with other bills, such as the one for the mobile phone, you don't receive any letter warning you when and how much you have to pay.

One day the card that I use to enter the gym didn't let me in, so I went to the girl at reception. After looking up my details on the computer, she told me that my bank had refused to pay them.

I was short of money as always but I thought I had enough money in my account. I have two bank accounts; one where I deposit my wages and the other where I try to save money for a rainy day. I thought that the bank deducted money from "wages" account but in fact, it was the other one. And because there have been too many rainy days, there wasn't enough money to pay for the gym.

I thought it shouldn't be a problem to sort out. I would simply have to give them the details of the second account. I was astonished when they asked me to pay 475 Euros, as if I was a new member. That's a difference of 85 Euros and I would have to pay that amount every year from then on.

After speaking to a rude receptionist and getting nowhere, I asked to speak to the manageress. She promised me that she would try her best to sort the problem out. However, she came back with an answer that I didn't want to hear.

I realize that it was my mistake but I find it unfair that I have to pay such a big penalty. As a result I have found a gym close to home where I pay slightly less than the amount the Holiday Gym were asking for. Not only have they lost me as a client; a few of my friends are not going to renew their contract either.

Through sheer stupidity, they are losing much more than they would gain by making me pay more.

One of my friends has already cancelled his membership and made a complaint along with me.

Using my example or one of your own, I'd like you to write an official letter of complaint. Or alternatively, relate an occassion when you had to complain. Did you get a satisfactory outcome?

Your teacher

Let me introduce myself. My name is Graham and I was born in Inverness; a town in the far North of Scotland.

I have been living in Madrid for just over six years now. I should be embarrassed to admit this, as I still struggle with the language now and again. But I feel quite settled here.

I am now in my mid-thirties and often wonder where the time has gone. It doesn't seem any time at all since I left school and was thinking what to do with my immediate future. I can't be labelled ambitious because I just seem to have been drifting since then. I keep on hoping that one day I will finally decide on what direction to take.

Before heading abroad, I attended the local college where I did a Business Admin course. It wasn't the best of choices as it held little interest for me. Now I suppose I regret not going on to University to do something I would have enjoyed more.

I had it in my head that I wanted to travel rather than study, and teaching gave me the opportunity to do that. My first port of call was Rome. I went on to spend seven and a half years there; much longer than I had anticipated! Whatsmore, over the six years since coming to Spain, I have been back to the Eternal city three times. I should quit throwing coins into the Trevi fountain!

I have decided to create a blog this year to complement classes. I am hardly what you would call an expert at computing but hopefully I will get the hang of it soon. So bear with me, please. If anything challenging that comes up in class requires extra practice, or I come across something that may be useful or interesting, I will post it here. What is most needed to make this blog a success is your participation.

I'd like you to write a short introduction, as I have done, to all other blog-users. You can talk about whatever you want but make an effort to use language that demonstrates your abilities. Try to use unfamiliar constructions or expressions; as it is only by practising them that you make improvements.

Are there any expressions or constructions that I have used here that are new to you?

Happy blogging!