This is the result of last Thursday's match between Aberdeen and Atletico Madrid. What is your opinion on what happened and on football hooliganism in general?
Have you ever been to an important football match? What was the atmosphere like?
After reading the comments related to an article about the disturbances in Madrid following the Aberdeen - Atleti match, I decided to add some of my own in defence of the Spanish authorities. Many of the contributors had valid points but they only put the blame on the Spanish riot police and the Atleti fans. They didn't criticise any of the Aberdeen fans. Below is a heated discussion between a fellow Scot who lives in Madrid and myself. My nick is ScotInMadrid.
44. Joe Black, Madrid / 1:43pm 1 Dec 2007
Read the Spanish press, and they say the young lassie is the liar.
And that it was the drunken hooligan Scots that started the fighting; spilling drunkenly out of the bars.
Firing flares and throwing bottles and chairs at the Spanish and the Police.
What a Jackanory (slang What a tall story)!
Joe Black, Madrid / 6:16pm 1 Dec 2007
The problem that exists in Spain which is related to this poor girl, is the lack of safety and security by the Police here.
You never really see policeman walking the streets and I think community police don´t even exist. You see plenty of them driving around.
Everytime there´s football trouble the maximum number of arrests can be counted on one hand. More people end up in hospital due to the police tactics than are arrested.
There´s never any segregation neither outside nor inside the ground.
I suppose its because they are so poorly paid. And the beatings with their sticks is a custom they´ve carried on from the dictator Franco times.
75. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 9:40pm 1 Dec 2007
As a Scot living in Madrid, I feel ashamed at the behaviour of some Aberdeen fans. I knew there would be trouble judging by the state of those that I saw wandering drunkenly around the centre early on Thursday afternoon. Like in Scottish cities, it isn't allowed to drink on the streets in Madrid. You have to respect the country that you visit and not expect them to play by your rules. If you choose to wear the kilt, remember that you are clearly representing Scotland.
After this latest episode, I can't defend the fans of Scots clubs as opposed to English ones. We are most definitely all grouped as hooligans now.
I don't doubt that some police were heavy-handed and some Atletico fans were out for trouble.
It can't be any coincidence however that wherever British clubs play in Europe, there is violence. Then blame is layed at local fans, police and anybody but the visiting fans themselves.
76. Joe Black, Madrid / 10:06pm 1 Dec 2007
#75 Scot In Madrid
Its a shame you cannot be impartial by you statements.
1.The Spanish invented drinking in the streets; illegally its called Botellon and prevalent through out all of Spain especially with students. Legally allowed in the many terrazas esp in summer time.
2.Atletico de Madrid are notorious for their hooliganism in Spain "frente Atletico". Go to any Madrid Derby.
3.And finally you obviously don´t watch Spanish TV to see how the "antidisturbios" (riot police) treat the general public.
Get yer heid out o´ the sand.
78. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 10:59pm 1 Dec 2007
I have lived in Madrid for over six years. I don't need you to explain how life is like here. Like any major city, Madrid has some problems with drunkness; but nothing on the scale of any city or even small town in Scotland at the weekend.
They like their "copas" but don't go picking a fight after they have had a few.
I witnessed the Aberdeen fans that were here for the match. They weren't football hooligans but they showed no respect for the city they were visiting. They were already "blazing" (slang, drunk) by mid-afternoon and falling around the centre; being loud and foul-mouthed.
I have been to matches in the Bernabeu and Calderon. They have their problems and there are incidents from time to time caused by their hooligans.
But there are no problems when either Real Madrid or Atletico fans go abroad. Why is it that the majority of trouble is caused by visiting British clubs?
And you are also wrong in your assumption that I don't follow events in the Spanish media. I repeat that there are police who are heavy-handed but on the whole they only hit out when provoked.
It would be sensible for any innocent by-stander at the first hint of trouble to distance themselves from the area immediately. But as most visiting fans were "stotting"(slang, very drunk) well before the match, they were incapable of doing that.
I am surprised that you live in Spain. It sounds to me as if you still need to adapt to the Spanish way of life. If you can't do that, you should return home!
79. Joe Black, Madrid / 11:10pm 1 Dec 2007
I´ve been in Spain for over twenty years, but at least I´m objective and can see both sides.
True Spanish supporters generally do not travel not even in Spain, and abroad its generally too expensive.
80. Joe Black, Madrid / 11:14pm 1 Dec 2007
I´ve seen Spaniards having botellons out of the back of their cars annoying the whole barrio and then jumping in their car totally drunk and driving away.
And when the president of our community called the police, they did nothing.
As say get real.
81. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 11:26pm 1 Dec 2007
Reading through your previous comments I can't find any objectivity; just a sense of anti-Spanish. Surprising coming from someone who has lived here for so long. It must have been 20 years of suffering if you hold such opinions.
I saw the visiting fans and believe me, they were a disgrace to our country. Spaniards generally hold Scotland in high regard but behaviour such as I witnessed will possibly change that.
82. Joe Black, Madrid / 11:28pm 1 Dec 2007
# 78As you´ve only lived in Madrid for short time, you don´t how badly it has changed over the time I´ve lived here.
Shootings with columbians, latin gang fights, prostitutes annoying normal people in day light hours.
The Madrid of over ten years ago was a much safer place. Now its turning into a very violent city, with places that even the police are afraid to go to.
Though not everything is bad, its just like any modern cosmopolitan city; with the good and bad, as in Glasgow or Edinburgh.
I like Spain and Madrid; THIS is my home.
Try to open your eyes.
83. Joe Black, Madrid / 11:37pm 1 Dec 2007
Reading your comments you seem to be anti Scottish, its not surprising you left your homeland as you seem to be embarrassed to be a Scot ( in madrid)
You seem to think everybody in Scotland are drunks and foul mouthed drunks.
Your a sad case.
84. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 11:54pm 1 Dec 2007
I agree with you about some of the problems that Madrid has but compared to other cites (even smaller ones such as Glasgow) it is a relatively safe city. Living here for so long you will know how many neighbourhoods in the city centre have changed for the better.
In the "short time" (6.5years) that I have lived in Madrid, I have accepted and love the way of life here. The madrileños are very welcoming and on the whole friendly. It isn't perfect here but I am not going to become one of those moaning "guiris" (foreigners).
Returning to the trouble that occurred, I know there were police who lashed out and "atleti" that were fighting. However my eyes WERE open on Thursday afternoon when I saw drunken Aberdeen louts disturbing families in a busy shopping area. I predicted there would be trouble ahead.
My head most certainly isn't in the sand and my eyes are open to what is going on around me. Are yours?
85. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 12:05am 2 Dec 2007
I am VERY proud to be a Scot. I have a kilt and get drunk but I don't go around bothering others. I love talking about my country to all I meet. It makes me sad, when the likes I witnessed here in Madrid (admittedly a minority), create bad publicity for the country.
I love Scotland and I love Spain and the Spaniards.
If you are looking for a sad case, it seems you just need to look in the mirror.
86. ScotInMadrid, Madrid / 12:08am 2 Dec 2007
PS It's YOU ARE / YOU'RE (not YOUR) a sad case.
Seems that you need to brush up on your English too!
Joe Black responded by calling me SnobInMadrid. I reported the comment as unsuitable and it was removed!
Source: The Scotsman
What is your opinion on football fans? Do you agree with the comments about the Spanish police? What do you think the solution is to football related violence?
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